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rathercommon

crystal | letter | cease and desist notices slipped under her door | action

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From:

elegiaque

We're not just talking about propaganda. ( impatiently. ) The fact propaganda exists is why this is important, not an argument to shut your eyes and be ignorant. There's never an argument to be ignorant. Much of the time, what we're discussing isn't at all deliberate, and much of the time, that makes it easy to take advantage of.

I mean, what sort of argument is that? "People are taken advantage of all the time, so it's better not to understand anything."

From:

rathercommon

[ A little crabbily: ]

I hope you don't actually think I'm arguing that people ought to stay ignorant.

From:

elegiaque

The dismissive tone you're taking to the mere idea of thinking about the way people communicate is difficult to ignore.

From:

rathercommon

[ Huffily, genuinely offended: ]

If you think that - honestly think that - then you know nothing at all about me.

From:

elegiaque

I do know next to nothing about you. Because you do the same thing every single person does, you choose what you show people. I'm not saying that you, personally, have to go out and become a propagandist. Or that you should drop whatever it is you're doing in order to concentrate instead on this. All I'm saying is that it does matter, and you seem very determined to just—

( a sound of frustration. )

Manipulating people with lies is bad! Yes! Understanding how that's done is useful. Someone should care!

From:

rathercommon

You know plenty about me. I've been utterly forthcoming with you - you just haven't been very interested.

[ Then she takes a breath and tries to get her spike of irritation under control. Quieter, slower, more firmly: ]

Look, everything I know, I've had to fight to know, 'cause no one likes for a girl like me to be educated. So I don't like it when I get accused of being willfully ignorant. All right? Please don't say that, even if you're trying to prove a point, 'cause it really gets under my skin. And I do care how manipulation is done; I'm just saying that there's ways that you can live without doing it, and that it oughtn't be necessary.

From:

elegiaque

I'm not saying it to prove a point, I'm getting tired of being dismissed. I haven't said, and I am not saying, that manipulation is necessary.

Edited Date: 2018-11-23 09:43 am (UTC)

From:

rathercommon

I'm not dismissing you. Honestly, Gwen, this is what got us into that original argument in the first place. When I state my viewpoint, you immediately jump to oh, you're not listening to me. I can listen to you without gobbling up your opinions and agreeing with them.

From:

elegiaque

You haven't responded to my opinion at all!

( there's an actual slam of the crystal down, and audible footsteps. a long, necessary pause, on the other end of which gwenaëlle counts backwards from fifty. when she returns: )

Tell me what you think I'm saying.

From:

rathercommon

[ Kitty clenches her teeth as well, struggling to swallow the urge to scold Gwen like a child for her behavior. The woman is simply strange, Kitty reminds herself; she's strange, but means well. Chastising her for being strange won't get anyone anywhere.

So. ]

That performance is a part of life. That people represent themselves in certain ways, and that people pick up ideas about other people regardless, so image management is important.

From:

elegiaque

( the small sound of disbelief on the other end is muted, disappointed. hurt, which feels stupid, but makes her less inclined to be sorry for hurting kitty back. )

That's not what's important about that.

From:

rathercommon

[ Her lips tighten, but she asks levelly: ]

Then what's important.

From:

elegiaque

Forget it.

From:

rathercommon

[ Trying to keep the sting of anger from her voice: ]

No, apparently I was simply too ignorant to understand. So please, explain to me.

From:

elegiaque

You think I'm shallow and the only thing I care about is appearances. So what's important is that now I know that and I don't know that I should waste any further breath that you can just use to decide my opinion is whatever you like.

From:

rathercommon

[ Uhhh - ]

How'd you come to that conclusion, exactly?

From:

elegiaque

All you took from everything I said was 'image management is important'? That's what you think I'm talking about?

( most of the time, gwenaëlle really is just sort of an angry lunatic, which can make it harder to tell how unsubtly she wears her heart on her sleeve. her heart is an asshole, like the rest of her. in a way, the hurt in moments like this only underscores the general straightforwardness of the rest of her. there's very little dissembling. she just feels things, immensely. )

From:

rathercommon

[ Ugh. ]

I don't bloody know! That was about seven different speeches of five minutes each, wasn't it. Have you ever thought that maybe the problem's less that I'm not listening and more that you're saying a lot of stuff that's coming right out of your head without much attention being paid to whether or not I'll understand it? It's not always the other person's fault!

From:

elegiaque

I will make a note to say less.

From:

rathercommon

Yeah, that wasn't the point of what I was saying. So clearly you're a horrible beast who doesn't care about me.

From:

elegiaque

Glad we've cleared that up.

From:

rathercommon

Oh my God. Stop being petulant. All I'm saying is try to make a little effort to pay attention to the person you're talking to. Check to see if they'll understand it. Weren't you just talking about stories? Every story's written for an audience, isn't it?

From:

elegiaque

( it's extremely annoying when someone else has a point. )

Fine, I shouldn't have misjudged the interest of mine.

From:

rathercommon

[ Through gritted teeth: ]

I've told you a dozen times if I've told you once. If you haven't heard it by now, you're the one with no interest in me. I'm a stupid commoner, raised to be stupid, kept stupid. Deliberately. I don't talk about this and I don't know how to talk about this. I don't know how many ways I need to explain that I'm just ignorant and pathetic. All right?